Metagame NP: Stage 0 - We've Only Just Begun (Welcome to SV NU) [Quickbans Post #142]

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Oathkeeper

"Wait!" he says, do I look like a waiter?
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wdym seperate posts I'm just responding to some people
Correct, and responding is fine, but let me show you something
1676565692203.png

This is fine. You're responding to multiple people in 1 post. You have all your thoughts and opinions here in just this 1 post.

Now, since these were deleted, I can only show so much but....
1676565759689.png

This is what Togkey is talking about. You're posting too quickly your thoughts and opinions. This is known as flooding and it's very frowned upon. Follow the example in the first screenshot from now on please! Thank you :blobthumbsup:
 

5Dots

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Out of the Kickoff tour after playing some very fun games. Although NU is quite fast and hazard stack is superb right now, there's a few Pokemon that I'd like to bring up:
:sv/Ursaring:
Ursaring @ Eviolite
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 96 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Bulk Up
- Crunch
- Facade
Thanks to now being a NFE, Ursaring has worked out as a decent Bulk Up sweeper that can threaten many common teams with its offensive prowess and movepool. Though Faster Guts sets, Trick Room variants, and Choice sets have popped up, I prefer to go with a more balanced approach. No Drain Punch hurts for this bear, but it is still hard to switch into and works nicely as a bulky wincon. The Attack EVs hit a jump point and almost always 2HKO Oricorio formes, and avoid the 2HKO from Copperajah after a Bulk Up. The Speed EVs also allow it to outspeed Sandaconda and outspeed it without paralysis. Ghost Tera has also been nice to stop the plethora of Fighting-types from bowling it over in an emergency, though it's only decent at doing so and would much rather have other Tera candidates abuse the mechanic.

:SV/Umbreon:
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Dark Pulse
- Wish
- Protect
Even with the removal of Heal Bell and competition with Vaporeon, Umbreon's sheer bulk, Thunder Wave, and different resistances makes it a good alternative to its fellow Eeveelution. Unlike Vaporeon, Umbreon is a better general wall and is difficult to check for specific tanks and attackers, such as Copperajah, Mabosstiff (without switching into Tera Fairy Play Rough), Muk, and physical Zoroak. Access to Thunder Wave also helps, seeing as NU is loaded with fast attackers and bulky setup sweepers; paralysis is especially good considering how the margin of error offensive builds. Calm Mind sets can be worth trying, seeing as unlike Vaporeon, Dark lacks immunities and consistent Fairy-types are scarce outside of Terastalization and the unique Tinkatuff. While not a dark horse pick (far from it - it's one of the best defensive Pokemon in the tier), I haven't seen much discussion from this and would love to see more Pokemon try this!
:SV/Vespiquen:
Vespiquen @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Roost
- U-turn
Has seen some solid tour usage and definitely a Pokemon not to underestimate. Previously unviable with an unfixable, ugly defensive typing, Tera converts it into one of the best bulky pivots in the tier, and a cornerstone to hazard stack builds. Now, Heavy-Duty Boots are no longer mandatory - it can go as far as be the team's Knock Off absorber against Passimian! Pressure has gained more importance given the abundance of Close Combats and Stone Edges in the tier, and with Tera Ghost, it's a hard stop to rare Spinners like Quaxwell, Carkol, and Toedscool. While it's true quite a few Poison-types can absorb Toxic, a lot of them lack reliable recovery and are vulnerable to U-turn, making it even more annoying to deal with. The only thing that hinders is its low recovery PP, but that's a minor issue given how it's commonly paired with Vaporeon and Sandaconda (a Wish passer and a superb stats absorber). Do not underestimate this Pokemon, and keep an eye on the queen bee.
:SV/Toxicroak:
Toxicroak @ Choice Band
Ability: Dry Skin
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Close Combat
- Gunk Shot
- Sucker Punch
Like Umbreon, Toxicroak is renowned for being a premier Swords Dance/Nasty Plot sweeper. Priority on both sides of the spectrum and helpful resistances to Passimian and Vaporeon allow it switch-in opportunities other Fighting-types and setup sweepers could only dream of having. Although Passimian and Medicham are better Choice item users, Toxicroak's higher Speed (outrunning the aforementioned Fighting-types, speed-tying with Mabosstiff, Skuntank, and Goodra) warrants some consideration. It still keeps the defensive perks, but gets to more freely run something like Earthquake for Poison-types or Drain Punch for preserving CC's PP and for general recovery. Not a set you'd normally see, but something worth experimenting.

Here's some teams I've used in the tour with! May add descriptions later. Click on the sprites to check out the teams I've laddered to #1 with!
NUTotheTop.png
:Clawitzer: :Passimian: :Muk: :Chansey: :Umbreon: :Tauros-Paldea-Combat:
:Crabominable: :Sandaconda: :Goodra: :Chansey: :Oricorio-Pom-Pom: :Passimian:
:Whiscash: :Morgrem: :Oricorio-Pom-Pom: :Farigiraf: :Bruxish: :Tauros-Paldea-Combat:
 
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Today in Evil mons:

:Sawsbuck:
Sawsbuck @ Loaded Dice
Ability: Serene Grace
Tera Type: Grass/Fire/Electric
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Trailblaze
- Bullet Seed
- Body Slam
- Zen Headbutt/Stomping Tantrum/Tera Blast/Headbutt/etc.

You outspeed most everything after a trailblaze, actually have a little bulk, Spread para/flinch with headbutt/slam (catching goodra off guard), and can avoid the paralysis running rampant in the tier with tera-electric without sacrificing your stab; being able to play around sandaconda is wonderful. If only Leafeon had this ability/movepool.

:Mudbray:
Mudbray @ Eviolite
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Good defenses and surprisingly high attack, though lack of recovery, status, and body press mean sandy outclasses it. It's still pretty good.

:Zoroark:
Zoroark @ Choice Band
Ability: Illusion
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Brick Break
- Trick

Fast enough to cripple things, strong enough to make U-Turn and Knock Off hurt. First Impression will mess you up, though.
 
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:sv/whiscash:
Whiscash @ Leftovers
Ability: Oblivious
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Future Sight
- Protect
- Earth Power
- Spikes
I am guilty of using this a lot. It compresses many roles on offenses and gives me Future Sight which I am a fiend for. It is actually a really solid defensive piece and although it is mid in the grand scheme of things I feel for the cash and I like the utility Future Sight+Protect gives along with spikes. Worth a try
After seeing Rabia video, my suggestion is running EQ over Earth Power with a -speed nature to not lose to CM Jolteon. If they tera with him (spoiler: they always do bc unmon has no coverage) you do 13% after 1 CM and Jolteon can go to +6/+6 and sweep you whith ease
 

EonX

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Following up from a portion of 5Dots post, I want to talk more about Vespiquen as it's a Pokemon I've absolutely fallen in love with as the meta has developed. To understand why this Pokemon is so sneaky good right now, one has to understand how to get the most out of powerful offensive Pokemon. Sure, getting a good team matchup is never a bad way for an offensive Pokemon to put in a lot of work and make your opponent's life miserable, but truly elite offensive Pokemon don't need a good team matchup to give your opponent fits. It just needs a reliable way to get in on a good matchup consistently. While you could channel your inner Arceus and just double on predicted switches, there's a much more reliable way to accomplish this; slow pivots. Now as great as an offensive Pokemon can be when positioned in a favorable matchup, entry hazards are also a great way to capitalize on the pressure said offensive Pokemon forces onto the opponent. What if I were to tell you that we have a Pokemon that can not only set up entry hazards and slow pivot consistently, but also keep itself healthy with reliable recovery and ruin slow boosters? That would be truly great, but it would need to be able to check some key offensive threats and work well with other Pokemon on both offense and defense in order to truly be worth using on almost any team...

Enter Vespiquen. With Spikes, U-Turn, Roost, and Toxic, it becomes a defensive Pokemon capable of setting entry hazards to punish forced switches, a base 40 Speed U-Turn in order to safely get in the likes of Mabosstiff, Bruxish, and Goodra on their good matchups, Toxic to ruin the likes of CM Vaporeon and CM Umbreon, and Roost to allow it to continue taking hits from the likes of Passimian, Medicham, and many others that vary based on what Tera type it decides to use. Now, that base 40 Speed U-Turn obviously sets up its offensive teammates to succeed more easily, but the reason Vespiquen is truly an excellent Pokemon is that it pairs well with some of the tier's best defensive Pokemon as well! Due to its great mixed defenses, it can adopt a Physically Defensive spread if used with Copperajah or a Specially Defensive spread if Sandaconda is the Stealth Rock user of choice on a team. Congrats, you have a bulky hazard stack core that can stomach hits from some of the tier's top threats with Copperajah's Whirlwind capitalizing on Vespiquen's Spikes and Sandaconda's Shed Skin Rest providing it with reliable enough recovery alongside Vespiquen's reliable Roost. Most defensive Pokemon in general also appreciate Vespiquen's U-Turn to spare them from taking damage as they come in on threats that they're meant to beat. Vaporeon and Umbreon provide Wish support, which can be important considering Roost's nerfed 8 PP this gen. Crocalor helps out by handling the Quiver Dance users that could otherwise use Vespiquen's lackluster damage output as setup. Muk and Skuntank are able to absorb opposing Toxic Spikes, which becomes more important when Vespiquen sheds its Flying typing through Terastilization. As for the desired Tera type, Ghost and Fairy are by far the most consistent options for Vespiquen, though Poison isn't a terrible idea either to absorb opposing Toxic Spikes while still maintaining a Fighting + Bug resistance to annoy Passimian with.
 

Fragmented

procrastinating...
is a Pokemon Researcher
*U-turns behind you* Nothing Pass-sonal, kid.
L + ratio + 252 Atk Tera Fighting Passimian Close Combat vs. You: 992-1168 (411.6 - 484.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Usage stats from previous rounds:
Round 1
Round 2
Round 3

:oricorio-pom-pom:NU Kickoff Tour Round 4:oricorio-pom-pom:
Code:
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon              | Uses | Usage % |  Win %  +
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Sandaconda           |   21 |  52.50% |  52.38% |
| 1    | Passimian            |   21 |  52.50% |  42.86% |
| 3    | Goodra               |   16 |  40.00% |  50.00% |
| 4    | Oricorio-Pom-Pom     |   15 |  37.50% |  46.67% |
| 5    | Vaporeon             |   12 |  30.00% |  66.67% |
| 5    | Copperajah           |   12 |  30.00% |  58.33% |
| 7    | Muk                  |   11 |  27.50% |  45.45% |
| 8    | Chansey              |    8 |  20.00% |  75.00% |
| 8    | Drifblim             |    8 |  20.00% |  75.00% |
| 8    | Zoroark              |    8 |  20.00% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Umbreon              |    6 |  15.00% |  50.00% |
| 11   | Crabominable         |    6 |  15.00% |  33.33% |
| 13   | Bruxish              |    5 |  12.50% |  80.00% |
| 13   | Jolteon              |    5 |  12.50% |  40.00% |
| 15   | Toxicroak            |    4 |  10.00% | 100.00% |
| 15   | Scyther              |    4 |  10.00% |  75.00% |
| 15   | Dudunsparce          |    4 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Vespiquen            |    4 |  10.00% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Frosmoth             |    4 |  10.00% |  25.00% |
| 15   | Lycanroc             |    4 |  10.00% |  25.00% |
| 21   | Eelektross           |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Medicham             |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Perrserker           |    3 |   7.50% |  66.67% |
| 21   | Camerupt             |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Hattrem              |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Quaxwell             |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Ursaring             |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Haunter              |    3 |   7.50% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Mabosstiff           |    2 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Pyroar               |    2 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Spiritomb            |    2 |   5.00% | 100.00% |
| 29   | Cacturne             |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Clawitzer            |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Klawf                |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Rotom                |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Skuntank             |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Venomoth             |    2 |   5.00% |  50.00% |
| 29   | Honchkrow            |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Lurantis             |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Tauros-Paldea-Combat |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 29   | Tinkatuff            |    2 |   5.00% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Crocalor             |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Stonjourner          |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Whiscash             |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
| 42   | Electrode            |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Falinks              |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Glaceon              |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Houndoom             |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Rabsca               |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Rotom-Frost          |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Sawsbuck             |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Toedscool            |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
| 42   | Zangoose             |    1 |   2.50% |   0.00% |
Code:
| 20   | Dudunsparce          |    3 |   7.50% |  33.33% |
| 42   | Dudunsparce-Three-Segment |    1 |   2.50% | 100.00% |
40 teams, 20 battles, 53 unique pokemon

We pretty much have our top 6. Chansey, Drifblim, Zoroark, and Umbreon have seen increased usage from the last week. Muk usage remains high while Skuntank usage tanks.

Also, here are the cumulative usage stats from the first 4 rounds of the Kickoff Tour.
Code:
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon              | Uses | Usage % |  Win %  +
+ ---- + -------------------- + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Sandaconda           |  120 |  40.54% |  55.00% |
| 2    | Passimian            |  114 |  38.51% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Goodra               |  107 |  36.15% |  49.53% |
| 4    | Copperajah           |   93 |  31.42% |  53.76% |
| 5    | Oricorio-Pom-Pom     |   88 |  29.73% |  56.82% |
| 6    | Vaporeon             |   78 |  26.35% |  57.69% |
| 7    | Muk                  |   41 |  13.85% |  63.41% |
| 8    | Jolteon              |   40 |  13.51% |  47.50% |
| 9    | Bruxish              |   39 |  13.18% |  53.85% |
| 10   | Lycanroc             |   37 |  12.50% |  43.24% |
| 11   | Drifblim             |   36 |  12.16% |  55.56% |
| 12   | Venomoth             |   34 |  11.49% |  32.35% |
| 13   | Chansey              |   32 |  10.81% |  65.62% |
| 13   | Vespiquen            |   32 |  10.81% |  62.50% |
| 15   | Dudunsparce          |   30 |  10.14% |  53.33% |
| 15   | Zoroark              |   30 |  10.14% |  50.00% |
| 15   | Frosmoth             |   30 |  10.14% |  40.00% |
| 18   | Umbreon              |   29 |   9.80% |  55.17% |
| 19   | Hattrem              |   27 |   9.12% |  59.26% |
| 19   | Braviary             |   27 |   9.12% |  33.33% |
| 21   | Mabosstiff           |   26 |   8.78% |  50.00% |
| 21   | Medicham             |   26 |   8.78% |  30.77% |
| 23   | Eelektross           |   24 |   8.11% |  54.17% |
| 24   | Haunter              |   23 |   7.77% |  60.87% |
| 25   | Scyther              |   21 |   7.09% |  66.67% |
| 25   | Whiscash             |   21 |   7.09% |  52.38% |
| 25   | Tauros-Paldea-Combat |   21 |   7.09% |  47.62% |
| 25   | Lurantis             |   21 |   7.09% |  38.10% |
| 29   | Skuntank             |   20 |   6.76% |  55.00% |
| 29   | Toxicroak            |   20 |   6.76% |  40.00% |
| 31   | Spiritomb            |   19 |   6.42% |  73.68% |
| 31   | Klawf                |   19 |   6.42% |  31.58% |
| 31   | Oricorio-Sensu       |   19 |   6.42% |  31.58% |
| 34   | Crabominable         |   18 |   6.08% |  55.56% |
| 34   | Rotom                |   18 |   6.08% |  55.56% |
| 34   | Farigiraf            |   18 |   6.08% |  33.33% |
| 37   | Crocalor             |   17 |   5.74% |  70.59% |
| 38   | Jumpluff             |   16 |   5.41% |  31.25% |
| 39   | Perrserker           |   15 |   5.07% |  60.00% |
| 39   | Quaxwell             |   15 |   5.07% |  46.67% |
| 41   | Houndoom             |   14 |   4.73% |  35.71% |
| 41   | Camerupt             |   14 |   4.73% |  28.57% |
| 41   | Morgrem              |   14 |   4.73% |  21.43% |
| 44   | Pyroar               |   13 |   4.39% |  76.92% |
| 44   | Sawsbuck             |   13 |   4.39% |  38.46% |
| 46   | Clawitzer            |   12 |   4.05% |  58.33% |
| 46   | Oricorio             |   12 |   4.05% |  58.33% |
| 46   | Honchkrow            |   12 |   4.05% |  50.00% |
| 46   | Zangoose             |   12 |   4.05% |  33.33% |
| 50   | Rabsca               |   11 |   3.72% |  45.45% |
| 51   | Cacturne             |   10 |   3.38% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Qwilfish             |   10 |   3.38% |  50.00% |
| 53   | Spidops              |    9 |   3.04% |  44.44% |
| 54   | Ursaring             |    8 |   2.70% |  37.50% |
| 54   | Indeedee-F           |    8 |   2.70% |  25.00% |
| 56   | Veluza               |    7 |   2.36% |  57.14% |
| 56   | Masquerain           |    7 |   2.36% |  14.29% |
| 56   | Tinkatuff            |    7 |   2.36% |  14.29% |
| 59   | Frogadier            |    6 |   2.03% |  83.33% |
| 59   | Carkol               |    6 |   2.03% |  66.67% |
| 59   | Vivillon-Fancy       |    6 |   2.03% |  50.00% |
| 62   | Basculin             |    5 |   1.69% |  60.00% |
| 62   | Misdreavus           |    5 |   1.69% |  60.00% |
| 62   | Glimmet              |    5 |   1.69% |  40.00% |
| 62   | Golduck              |    5 |   1.69% |  40.00% |
| 62   | Appletun             |    5 |   1.69% |  20.00% |
| 62   | Rotom-Frost          |    5 |   1.69% |  20.00% |
| 68   | Gogoat               |    4 |   1.35% |  75.00% |
| 68   | Rotom-Fan            |    4 |   1.35% |  75.00% |
| 68   | Electrode            |    4 |   1.35% |  50.00% |
| 68   | Toedscool            |    4 |   1.35% |  50.00% |
| 68   | Wugtrio              |    4 |   1.35% |  50.00% |
| 73   | Stonjourner          |    3 |   1.01% | 100.00% |
| 73   | Fraxure              |    3 |   1.01% |  66.67% |
| 73   | Leafeon              |    3 |   1.01% |  66.67% |
| 73   | Murkrow              |    3 |   1.01% |  66.67% |
| 73   | Scovillain           |    3 |   1.01% |  66.67% |
| 73   | Eiscue               |    3 |   1.01% |  33.33% |
| 73   | Flapple              |    3 |   1.01% |   0.00% |
| 73   | Glaceon              |    3 |   1.01% |   0.00% |
| 73   | Squawkabilly-Blue    |    3 |   1.01% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Dugtrio              |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 82   | Falinks              |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 82   | Magneton             |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 82   | Squawkabilly         |    2 |   0.68% |  50.00% |
| 82   | Ampharos             |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Delibird             |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Persian              |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 82   | Raichu               |    2 |   0.68% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Drakloak             |    1 |   0.34% | 100.00% |
| 90   | Dedenne              |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Greedent             |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Hypno                |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Kricketune           |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Luxray               |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Oricorio-Pa'u        |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Squawkabilly-White   |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Sudowoodo            |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Swalot               |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
| 90   | Wigglytuff           |    1 |   0.34% |   0.00% |
The meta 5/6 reign supreme. 7th place Muk has a lot of catching up to do.
 
| Rank | Pokemon | Uses | Usage % | Win % |
| 1 | Sandaconda | 120 | 40.54% | 55.00% |
| 2 | Passimian | 114 | 38.51% | 50.00% |
| 3 | Goodra | 107 | 36.15% | 49.53% |
| 4 | Copperajah | 93 | 31.42% | 53.76% |
| 5 | Oricorio-Pom-Pom | 88 | 29.73% | 56.82% |
| 6 | Vaporeon | 78 | 26.35% | 57.69% |
In the discord i tell how similar this tier look to the last SS NU meta. Most balance team are a mix of the top 6 mon on ladder. Sometime Perserkerr is in place of Rajah or Umbreon instead of Vaporeon. But this mon are still the best mon in a tier too similar to last gen.

I can tell that gen9nu alpha is gen8nu + tera + pletora of QD mons...
I hope this change with DLC / Home drops
 

EonX

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Not much to analyze with this week's usage stats in Tour, but I'll still note a couple of things:

If this week's stats are anything to go by moving forward, Muk may very well be establishing itself as the clear #7 in the tier as far as Tour usage is concerned with Jolteon's usage declining over the past week or two. Pretty easy to see why as it kind of just becomes the default SpDef tank on non-Copper teams (so basically teams using Sandaconda as their Rocker)
Medicham may have only been used 3 times, but I believe this is actually the first round where it's had a 50%+ win rate. Kind of crazy to think about considering how good it looks on paper, but it goes to show that the tier generally wants more than just a powerful CC out of its Fighters.
I may be wrong on this, but I believe Toxicroak is the first Pokemon all Tour with more than 2 uses and a 100% win rate. If so, congrats! If not, then I'm bad and ignore this.
Seeing strong win rates from Chansey and Drifblim suggest that they could be quite the solid anti-meta picks moving forward to get an edge over your opponents. Chansey do be walling the crap out of Specs Goodra and Blim's typing and Strength Sap give it a REALLY good matchup against both the common Rockers in Sandaconda and Copperajah, making it an ideal Defogger... well, for NU standards at least seeing as we have such amazing options here. It also kind of sits on Toxic Spikes variants of Muk as well, though Vespiquen's Toxic can cause it some problems long-term.
Of the main 6 in the tier, Vaporeon looks to be the most consistent pick to win. Not only the highest win rate out of the 6 this week by a decent margin, but also ever so slightly better than the rest in cumulative win rate stats.
 
Oke after getting bopped out of Kickoff (good luck LOTI). I wanted to share some deeper thoughts that would go along my previous post (which got a lot of love ty guys) And some thoughts I have in first days changed after playing in ladder and said tour. So yep.
Disclaimer: When I say QB or tiering action ofc I mean after alpha lol.

1. Convinced we need help

I think these four need to go, probably pom-pom is rising but the rest may stay.

Goodra is insane as we all think of when we look at the tier, theres no reliable counterplay or good enough switch-ins, it forces KOs, very bulky. I was running a Sub Acid Spray which did very well on ladder and some tour games, but in reality Specs is just no brainer. And yes Chansey but thats narrowed to a certain playstyle so it doesn't stop this demon from clicking buttons. QB

Pom-Pom is the one QD user I think it should go. It has too many good sets, including the not QD ones. Which is crazy, It can run Tera Steel/Ground. Defog, Taunt Stallbreaker. Typing allows it to 1v1 lots of current defensive staples. And its very centralizing as you just gotta play around and position for you to not auto-lose to this thing, which imo (I'll get into that later) it doesn't happen with the other QD users.

Dudunsparce is a demon I said, and I'll keep that. Its insane how this mon setups on mons it shouldn't cuz its insane bulk and in my experience, it just breaks for itself. Boomburst is already strong af. It also has other sets that aren't as common but they add to versality, like Glare+Hex which is disgusting. If this isn't a QB just as the next mon.

Yes I think Passimian is too good, may be hot take, not broken but centralizing to the point I think it needs to go, like seriously. None other viable Fighting type has access to U-turn Knock and the sheer power of just CC, it can run Rock Slide to revenge kill the QD guys, or EQ for Muk which is the best (omg i hate muk). Its like sooo damn splashable to the point its borderline for me. This also if not QB deserved of a suspect. (Reminds me of SSRU Mienshao).

2. Overhyped (?
:mabosstiff:
Medicham is the biggest tulpa we created of brokeness which in all honesty, its actually ok. Its hard to switch into but when you scout the set its rather easy to play it out, I'd say he's a great wallbreaker but nothing out of the extraordinary.
Same goes for Zangoose cuz It really needs positioning and the right time to setup and actually sweep, It would prob take a kill or two at most. So for the most part is a manageable mon.
Zoroark is a solid mon with a lot of versality and on ladder + tera is really funny. I think I lean towards physical atm cuz Stab Knock and U-turn is really good but again I wouldn't say its broken on the slightest.
Venomoth and Frosmoth are here just to say that the only QD user I found broken atm is Pom-pom whereas these two are amazing, don't get me wrong. There's such a trend of setup in the tier that most playstyles have found counterplay to them. So I don't think they require tiering action for now.
Ok Mabosstiff is actually strong af. Stakeout + Hazards is incredible and prob harder to switch into than Medicham I'd say. But again, dog is ok for now-ish. It has certain dominance as the strongest dark-type tho. Still need to play it more and against it.

Also on Bruxish :bruxish: I don't have a strong opinion tbh. Still a top mon for me but it doesn't require tiering action for me.
And regarding Light Clay well it will make all setup worse which is a blessing.

3. Underrated Picks

Basically mons that I think are sleep picks now and I fought during the tour and saw a lot of potential.

Muk is prob top 10 imo. I used it in a round and I lost to it too, its annoying af to play against. Has insane bulk and pure poison with Curse and Tera options its fantastic for balance teams. Drain Punch gives it recovery while hitting Steel-types and has some unique utility. Very good.
Drifblim is just solid Defog, with the lack of hazard removal. Good typing and very good utility in WoW and Strength Sap. Use this guy.
Toxicroak got CC and its probably more consistent than Medicham tbh. Coming on Vap is so good, strong sweeper.
Crabominable is actually great but the part that I think its more suprising is that is good without ter too. BU + Drain is all it needed (which i asume it didn't have before), great bulk and coverage.
Vespiquen just need to get rid of her awful typing to become a great hazard setter, slow pivot and Spinblocker at the same time. It has same movepool but with Tera becomes a defensive staple
Whiscash just needed hazards man, doesn't need anything else. Not only sash lead is good just as a defensive setter, it has an amazing typing to get hazards reliably.

That'll be all. See ya ^^
 
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Oricorio @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Dancer
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Revelation Dance

i dont see people talking more of this mon which is quite surprising. this one is an ori that absolutely destroys copper. usually copper can be a nice check in early game to check ori-pom sensu and most definitly pau pau[worst ori]. its bulk is cracked. It takes on a sandaconda rock slide. u can run a more offensive set though. absolutely blasting through stuff like venomoth due to its natural bulk quadruble resistance to bug and ofc dancer. it also has a positive matchup vs frosmoth which is pretty huge. frosmoth can be a pain for ori. tera types fire to give u that extra push vs stuff like copper frosmoth.






+4 252 SpA Tinted Lens Venomoth Bug Buzz vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Oricorio: 152-180 (42.9 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. +4 0 HP / 0 SpD Venomoth: 122-146 (43.4 - 51.9%) -- 12.9% chance to 2HKO
+1 4 SpA Tera Fire Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. +4 0 HP / 0 SpD Venomoth: 164-196 (58.3 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ice Scales Frosmoth: 210-248 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Tera Fire Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Ice Scales Frosmoth: 280-332 (99.6 - 118.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Tera Fire Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 228-272 (51 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Oricorio Revelation Dance vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Copperajah: 170-204 (38 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
 
Yes I think Passimian is too good, may be hot take, not broken but centralizing to the point I think it needs to go, like seriously. None other viable Fighting type has access to U-turn Knock and the sheer power of just CC, it can run Rock Slide to revenge kill the QD guys, or EQ for Muk which is the best (omg i hate muk). Its like sooo damn splashable to the point its borderline for me. This also if not QB deserved of a suspect. (Reminds me of SSRU Mienshao).
There's a part of me that wants to agree with you here. Passimian is indeed everywhere simply because the amount of revenge killing it provides with its phenomenal coverage as well as the general offensive power it brings to the table even with a Choice Scarf set. There is a most definitely a part of me that looks at Passimian in the current meta and having flashbacks to SSNU Mienshao in terms of effectiveness, but comparing them is just an insult to Mienshao.

Mienshao had access to Regenerator, the importance of which cannot be overstated, as it made it capable of switching in and out of the game into hazards without ever having to worry about chip racking up. In addition, Mienshao's incredible 105 Spe made it easily in the top 3 fastest viable Scarfers. That speed tier also made it capable of easily running non-Scarf sets (most notably LO), which rapidly made it obvious that it had been in NU way too long, with RU following suit soon after.

Comparably, Passimian is great, and most definitely something you have to keep in mind while building, but far from overcentralizing. Passimian hasn't really changed since its introduction in gen7 for good reason. While you will occasionally see a non-Scarf set, especially last gen when Choice Band picked up more steam, 955 of the time atm, its gonna be Scarf, and that is a set that has its drawbacks. As I mentioned in my post on the VR thread, Passimian's defensive utility is pretty much limited to being able to tank any one non-SE hit, which at the end of the day isn't that useful outside of emergency checking something or in endgame scenarios where Passimian already thrives. In addition, the current metagame isn't as friendly to Passimian's base 80 Spe. In a metagame infested with Quiver Dancers, Passimian can find it difficult to function as speed control, since offensive spreads on the likes of Oricorio can outspeed at +1 while the bulky sets can tank Rock Slide and set up to +2 to outspeed anyways. The monkey also suffers from sucess as picks like Scarf Rotom and Mabostiff have risen in popularity in part due to their higher base Spe allowing them to get the jump on the monkey. While Pass has definitely benefited from the removal of Scald, the metagame is at a power level where switching him in on anything besides an offensive threat to revenge kill is at best a calculated risk. Passimian actually does have to care about its health if it wants to be able to get that ideal endgame cleanup, since it does likely need to be able to take that one hit. After all, as great as 120 Atk is, oftentimes it just isn't enough to OHKO the slightly chipped Sandaconda. This is exacerbated by a metagame where hazard stacking is alive and well. Spikes and TSpikes especially hamper Passimian's need to stay fairly healthy. Even in the hypothetical world where Passimian is banned, it doesn't change the fact that you will need to account for powerful fighting types with good coverage. Passimian doesn't even have the benefit of a secondary STAB, which all of the other premier fighters bar Pauros have.

TLDR Passimian is really good, but calling it broken is farfetched at best. Thanks for listening to my TED Talk if you read all my rantings.
 
There's a part of me that wants to agree with you here. Passimian is indeed everywhere simply because the amount of revenge killing it provides with its phenomenal coverage as well as the general offensive power it brings to the table even with a Choice Scarf set. There is a most definitely a part of me that looks at Passimian in the current meta and having flashbacks to SSNU Mienshao in terms of effectiveness, but comparing them is just an insult to Mienshao.

Mienshao had access to Regenerator, the importance of which cannot be overstated, as it made it capable of switching in and out of the game into hazards without ever having to worry about chip racking up. In addition, Mienshao's incredible 105 Spe made it easily in the top 3 fastest viable Scarfers. That speed tier also made it capable of easily running non-Scarf sets (most notably LO), which rapidly made it obvious that it had been in NU way too long, with RU following suit soon after.

Comparably, Passimian is great, and most definitely something you have to keep in mind while building, but far from overcentralizing. Passimian hasn't really changed since its introduction in gen7 for good reason. While you will occasionally see a non-Scarf set, especially last gen when Choice Band picked up more steam, 955 of the time atm, its gonna be Scarf, and that is a set that has its drawbacks. As I mentioned in my post on the VR thread, Passimian's defensive utility is pretty much limited to being able to tank any one non-SE hit, which at the end of the day isn't that useful outside of emergency checking something or in endgame scenarios where Passimian already thrives. In addition, the current metagame isn't as friendly to Passimian's base 80 Spe. In a metagame infested with Quiver Dancers, Passimian can find it difficult to function as speed control, since offensive spreads on the likes of Oricorio can outspeed at +1 while the bulky sets can tank Rock Slide and set up to +2 to outspeed anyways. The monkey also suffers from sucess as picks like Scarf Rotom and Mabostiff have risen in popularity in part due to their higher base Spe allowing them to get the jump on the monkey. While Pass has definitely benefited from the removal of Scald, the metagame is at a power level where switching him in on anything besides an offensive threat to revenge kill is at best a calculated risk. Passimian actually does have to care about its health if it wants to be able to get that ideal endgame cleanup, since it does likely need to be able to take that one hit. After all, as great as 120 Atk is, oftentimes it just isn't enough to OHKO the slightly chipped Sandaconda. This is exacerbated by a metagame where hazard stacking is alive and well. Spikes and TSpikes especially hamper Passimian's need to stay fairly healthy. Even in the hypothetical world where Passimian is banned, it doesn't change the fact that you will need to account for powerful fighting types with good coverage. Passimian doesn't even have the benefit of a secondary STAB, which all of the other premier fighters bar Pauros have.

TLDR Passimian is really good, but calling it broken is farfetched at best. Thanks for listening to my TED Talk if you read all my rantings.
I specifically said that I dont find Passimian broken.?? Just too good and a centralizing force. The reminder with Mienshao was more of the dominance among figthers cuz of splashability and access to Uturn + Knock. I didn't even compare them for a reason.
But if you have to make a whole essay of that one sentence, then yeah. I'll give it to ya
 
Hello everyone! Due to the recent announcement that lower tiers will be skipping the Alpha period, NU has just voted on its first slate of the generation! The slate is below.

Ban Slate
1677138832303.png

As a result, Goodra, Oricorio-Pom-Pom, and Venomoth are banned from SV NU. Tagging Kris and Marty to implement please!

:goodra: Goodra: This is by far the most meta warping mon currently in the tier, having a whopping 600BST when the next competition (other than Slaking lol) sits at 531. It can force past most Pokemon in the tier with Choice Specs Draco Meteor, given that we have only fringe-viable fairies, but can excel with other sets such as Assault Vest with options such as Acid Spray to break down Quiver Dance users and bulkier Eeveelution forms. It has a versatile amount of teras, with Dragon to boost its already insane Draco Meteor, Steel to make it a defensive powerhouse to stat check most of the tier, and even Fairy to become a check to itself. This Pokemon is unfair, and it undoubtedly doesn't deserve to be here.

:Oricorio-Pom-Pom: Oricorio-Pom-Pom: Although this Pokemon sees a lot of play as a really solid Fighting-type check and a Defogger and pivot in the tier, it sees a lot of play with more nefarious sets, particularly Tera + Quiver Dance. All Oricorio forms change the type of their Revelation Dance to whichever Tera type it chooses, meaning that it can choose any type in the builder to change its coverage to at any moment. Not needing Tera Blast to do so allows it to fit all of Roost, Quiver Dance, and a fourth move in Flying-STAB, Taunt, Substitute, U-Turn, or even Defog. It has several options in which it can choose, the most common being Ground-type, but Fairy, Grass, and Water all being solid alternatives. The reason Pom-Pom in particular is so devastating is because its initial typing is so much more deadly, not having a Dark- or Electric-type weakness and immunity to Paralyze, making it much more threatening initially into the meta and keeping Tera as an option and not a requirement.

:Venomoth: Venomoth: This Pokemon has one of the most linear strategies of any Pokemon on this banlist: Put something to sleep, Quiver Dance, attack with Tinted Lens STAB moves. The fact that it can put something to sleep means that you must carry effectively 2 checks to it, otherwise it will risk sweeping your team. Unlike other threatening Quiver Dance users, it also doesn't need to use its Tera typing to be threatening, making it more flexible than other Quiver Dance win conditions in the metagame.

Frosmoth and Bruxish are still on the radar and will be revisited in a future slate if they seem like an issue. Thanks for your time!
 
Current potential banlist / suspect list, "The Radar", of the NeverUsed Council.
:frosmoth: :bruxish: :medicham: :mabosstiff: :oricorio-sensu:
Looking to maintain a minimum level of transparency that we owe the playerbase, this post will outline what wasn't initially banned, but will continue to have a close eye kept on as well as outlining why this is the case. It should be noted that although these Pokemon may not have been banned on the first slate, that does not mean the council has determined they are not problematic, but rather the Pokemon that were banned instead simply had a more profound effect on the metagame, whose bans could end up affecting the viability of the Pokemon found here on the radar.

1677131687163.png
Frosmoth-
Unlike the first Pokemon banned from NU, Frosmoth's viability is almost entirely founded upon Terastallization. Tera remedies both Frosmoth's terrible typing and terrible coverage, letting it soar from a relatively underwhelming Pokemon to a top-tier threat. This reliance on Tera does not mean it's intrinsically 'balanced', but it is something that simply puts it a tier below the likes of Goodra and Venomoth who, although obviously benefit greatly from Tera, are still absolute monsters without it. Frosmoth typically opts for Tera Ground to resist Rock-type attacks and threaten otherwise suitable checks like Copperajah, Muk, and Crocalor with its newfound Ground-type coverage. Ice and Ground are naturally amazing coverage anyway, and with Giga Drain to maintain its health and hit bulky Water-types like Vaporeon, Frosmoth can be nearly impossible to manage defensively.

1677132015867.png
Bruxish-
Bruxish boasts extremely potent offenses backed by surprising set diversity and a great Speed tier. Strong Jaw-boosted Psychic Fangs and Crunch, along with a powerful Wave Crash and priority Aqua Jet makes Bruxish quite difficult to manage defensively, but its poor bulk means if it can't nail an OHKO it's likely going to be KO'd itself. It's moves are very powerful, but the coverage is quite poor, losing to most Dark-types like Cacturne, Umbreon, and the surprisingly common Tera-Dark Vaporeon unless Bruxish chooses to expend its Tera. Bruxish's U-turn weakness in a tier dominated by Choice Scarf Passimian is also very difficult, although Choice Scarf Bruxish can turn the tables on this matchup. With Goodra and Venomoth banned, balance teams commonly devoured by Bruxish may be more common, meaning Bruxish may very well not stick around in the near future.

1677132506062.png
Medicham-
Similarly to Bruxish although far more exaggerated in both strengths and weaknesses, Medicham is nearly impossible to switch into, but conversely struggle tremendously to hit the field itself. It's poor Speed and terrible bulk mean if it can't nail that OHKO (although it probably can), it will fall over to a light breeze. Admittedly the pitfall of Medicham is the simple opportunity cost of not using a different Fighting-type, namely Passimian but also Tauros-Paldea or even Toxicroak and Crabominable. Medicham was certainly the biggest kneejerk contender for a quick ban, but as the metagame developed and it turns out heavy Fighting-resists and speed control for 80 base Speed Pokemon are mandated for other reasons anyway caused Medicham to fall to the sidelines, for now at least.

1677132902741.png
Mabosstiff-
Conceptually, you would think a Stakeout Pokemon with actual stats would be extremely broken, and you'd be right. Choice Band Mabosstiff simply has no switchins at all, easily 2HKOing the likes of Physically Defensive Sandaconda, Oricorio-Pom-Pom, and even Umbreon just with Tera Crunch, not to mention the possibility of Tera Play Rough or Double Edge. Choice Scarf is almost as hopeless to check but with a speed tier higher than even Passimian's and also has a surprise Destiny Bond. Mabosstiff without Stakeout is just an average attacker though, meaning its only situationally broken.

1677134683376.png
Other Oricorio forms (mostly Sensu)-
Other Oricorio forms weren't too common, besides maybe the occasional Sensu form. This isn't really because they're bad, but because Pom-Pom was so much better due to its superior defensive typing. With Pom-Pom gone, its other forms will certainly rise to take its place, and although they won't be quite as good, Quiver Dance and Terastallization is an obviously busted combination.

Moving forward into a new metagame, some of these may end up being balanced members of the metagame, and some other Pokemon may end up joining them here on the watchlist. Development of the meta is crucial to tiering it properly so posts and exploration are extremely encouraged. If you have any further questions regarding what was banned or wasn't and why, feel free to ask in the Discord or PM myself or Rabia, preferably Rabia he really likes that.
 
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RoiDadadou

My heart and actions are utterly unclouded.
is a Pre-Contributor
Really surprised of the Alpha’s skipping, we’ll see how things go from now on.
 

EonX

Battle Soul
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Figured I'd share my thoughts on the "radar" Pokemon now that the initial ban wave has been done:

: I think this is the most egregious of the radar Pokemon. With Goodra gone, it becomes the premier wallbreaker imo with a solid Speed tier, priority to remain useful vs faster teams, and the general lack of a need to Tera in order to be effective (although it certainly can in order to be more effective) Jolly keeps it ahead of Mabosstiff, non-Scarf Medicham, and the occasional non-Scarf Passimian and is probably better as a result, but Adamant makes it that much harder to switch into without Tera Dark Vaporeon or Cacturne. SD might get to be better too now that Goodra and Venomoth are gone as balance breakers, though the fact these teams are likely packing one of Vaporeon or Umbreon may keep it at bay.

: This is probably the most intriguing Pokemon on the radar as Venomoth and Oricorio-Pom-Pom were outright more consistent and less reliant on Tera in order to be viable, making them much easier to fit onto teams. Unfortunately, I still feel it's a bit too reliant on Tera in order to be consistently really good, but less competition will no doubt make it a better (and scarier) choice in this new meta.

: Medicham will be too much for the tier, but I don't think that time is now. Passimian is the dominant force in the tier and forces teams to be prepared for Fighting-type moves as a result. This is not good news for Medicham as it struggles to bring much else to the table outside of its wall shattering Close Combat (assuming it's not a bulky resist, but most teams will have this out of necessity for other mons) as it offers almost no defensive utility and its Speed tier is unimpressive. Sitting behind Mabosstiff and Bruxish in particular is a feels-bad moment and forces you into unfortunate trade situations whereas Toxicroak outspeeds Mabosstiff while having Sucker Punch to threaten Bruxish with (Dry Skin makes you immune to Aqua Jet) and Tauros-Combat is able to outspeed both and stomach Aqua Jet from Bruxish quite comfortably, even if it SDs on the switch. It has ludicrous power, but right now, the tier requires more than just power out of its Fighting types and Medicham doesn't have much else.

: On paper, this thing is ridiculously broken Band Stakeout Crunch is doing around 40% to Tera Fairy Sandaconda on the switch... which means it's forced to Rest or get KOed on next switch-in. Considering how physically bulky that is, most other Pokemon don't stand a chance on switch in. Base 85 and good enough bulk let's it switch into weaker attacks to start doing work. However, the low BP of its moves means that if it can't force something out consistently, it's going to struggle to muscle past things as Stakeout only activates on switches; not if you're outsped. It's definitely super good and worth keeping an eye on, but I feel that it's a little too inconsistent AT THIS MOMENT to be truly broken. But perhaps the lack of Goodra and Venomoth ripping Balance teams apart will change this. Time will tell.

: This shouldn't come as a surprise really. It's generally the default Choice Scarf user for the tier and the removal of Goodra from the tier also generally removes any need it ever had for Tera Fairy Tera Blast on Choice sets. Knock Off on a Fighting-type in a tier where hazard removal is limited and forces a lot of fat mons to run Boots means it just creates a lot of clean up chances for itself. U-turn is always good on a Choice mon and being able to form a VoltTurn core with the likes of Vespiquen, Eelektross, Rotom, and Jolteon makes it even more challenging to play around. Rock Slide, Gunk Shot, and Earthquake all smack would-be counters for likely lethal damage. I don't feel it's too much for the tier, but it is awfully centralizing and may fall under the "overcentralizing" category of broken (as in, the meta "can" handle it, but generally has to overprepare somewht to account for it.}

: The main issue I have with Sensu is that its defensive typing is far worse than Pom-Pom's. While I believe it will be very solid, I don't see it being broken as it takes a fair amount of damage from most Pokemon it tries to set up on and leaves it quite vulnerable to priority, revenge kills, or stuff like Vaporeon and Umbreon forcing it to Hurricane and risk missing. Perhaps if the meta leans more into balance teams, it'll prove to be too much. But as of right now, I don't really see it.

I'll save my "what looks good now." post for later after I remove most of the teams I had on Showdown bc HDB Goodra was on almost all of them lmao
 

Punchshroom

FISHIOUS REND MEGA SHARPEDO
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
:sv/magneton:
Magneton @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Steel Beam

Shoutouts to EonX for the brief discussion regarding Specs Analytic Magneton destruction, especially on VoltTurn teams. This thing hits obscenely hard, with Tera Steel allowing Magneton to achieve some truly unholy levels of damage:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dudunsparce: 448-528 (98.6 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magneton Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 474-560 (102.1 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sandaconda: 364-430 (104.5 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ 252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Tera Steel Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Eelektross: 247-291 (66 - 77.8%)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Tera Steel Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 370-436 (93.9 - 110.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Magneton Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Tera Fairy Crocalor: 360-428 (98.3 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Tera Steel Magneton Steel Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Tera Fairy Chansey: 608-716 (86.3 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
If Magneton is struggling to KO something on switch, like non-Tera Chansey, it can always Volt Switch to do some outrageous chip damage and soften it up for later; the only safe switch-in against Specs Magneton would be specially defensive Whiscash, which should hopefully have taken plenty of damage while setting up its hazards beforehand. Magneton is especially appealing for being an immediate punishment to the numerous Tera Fairies running around in the tier, and its ability to switch into annoying paralysis sources like Dudunsparce Glare/Body Slam and Hattrem Nuzzle and threaten an immediate KO with Specs Tera Steel Beam is appreciated as well (you can also try to punish Glare Sandaconda with Specs Tera Flash Cannon, but do this at your own risk lol).


:sv/bruxish:
Bruxish @ Lum Berry
Ability: Strong Jaw
Tera Type: Fairy / Fighting
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Psychic Fangs
- Tera Blast
- Wave Crash / Aqua Jet
+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Bruxish Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Dark Vaporeon: 444-524 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Bruxish Tera Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 414-488 (105 - 123.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Tera Fairy Bruxish Wave Crash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Copperajah: 459-540 (102.4 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
While Choiced Bruxishes have already adapted to using Poison Fang to punish Tera Dark Vaporeons while retaining coverage on Cacturne, Swords Dance Bruxish takes it a step further in completely flipping the Vaporeon matchup. This set takes full advantage of the fact that Vaporeon cannot really hurt it, as any Haze attempts can be undone by Swords Dancing again without much consequence, and Lum Berry staves off Yawn. Vaporeon will then be put into an extremely rough position where if it Tera Darks too early, it gets +2 Tera Blasted in response for a likely OHKO, but if it does not Tera Dark, Bruxish can just smack it with Psychic Fangs without needing to Tera so it can continue resisting Vaporeon's attacks. And of course, Umbreon becomes a target as well; even physically defensive Umbreon will lose as Bruxish will resist the Foul Play, while Lum Berry guards against Thunder Wave.

The Tera type has more applications than just Eeveelutions though. The Tera also grants a resistance to Dark and Bug, meaning it isn't concerned about Sucker Punches from Toxicroak and Cacturne while also fending off revenge kills from Scarf Passimian, Zoroark, and Scarf Mabosstiff so that it can continue its assault. The choice of Tera depends on whether you want Tera Fairy to also crush Spiritomb while retaining a Fighting resist to ward off Scarf Passimian better, or Tera Fighting so that Bruxish can crush Copperajah without needing Wave Crash, opening up room for Aqua Jet for potential lategame Swords Dance cleanups. Wave Crash is typically preferred though as it can still threaten a OHKO Sandaconda after +2, and can be used to further bluff a Choice item on Bruxish.
 
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wooper

heavy booty-doots
is a Forum Moderator
really grateful to be ending alpha early and to have some much-needed bans in goodra, pompom, and venomoth.

:medicham:
however, i am a bit surprised to not see medicham on the chopping block. i know that counterplay definitely exists, particularly when choice-locked, but you still have to answer it defensively in order to gather that information. but at the same time, we just lost two ways of answering it in pompom and venomoth, both of which take pure power-boosted close combat and can answer by outspeeding non-scarf variants with your strong stab moves in return. having to run physdef spiritomb or rabsca or using tech like tera psychic physdef sandaconda or klawf really restricts the teambuilder imo. this doesnt even factor in something like a spike-stacking teammate, which punishes the opponent for trying to pivot around and figure out the medicham's set.

:lilligant: :vivillon:
further, im a bit worried about lilligant and vivillon. even though they havent seen as much use as quiver dance sweepers as the oricorios, venomoth, or even frosmoth, i still think that handling them will be a tall order. goodra was a premier switch-in with sap sipper blocking sleep powder from both, as well as the former's stab moves, and was able to retaliate with moves like acid spray and rock slide. and this isnt to say that broken checks broken! but without goodra, i feel like we have to answer them similarly to how we answered venomoth: having one mon to be sleep fodder with another mon (i.e. muk) to counteract. this is definitely easier to do when compared to venomoth, which had tinted lens, but i think it creates unhealthy scenarios in which you have to have multiple answers and resign to the fact that one will be forced to go to sleep (particularly vs vivillon, thanks to compound eyes boosting its sleep powder to nearly 100% accuracy), in addition to playing the 50/50 of "will they sleep powder or quiver dance first".

and now rapid fire
:bruxish: has a surprising amount of variety at its disposal that can make checking it difficult at times, but with vap a top five three mon now and adaptations with tera dark, i think it is okay. for now. also:
Screen Shot 2023-02-23 at 9.38.23 AM.png


:mabosstiff: stakeout is obviously scary coming off of a base 120 attack, often bolstered by a choice band, but i personally have never felt overwhelmed by this in my experience

:frosmoth: i think what togkey said sums it up nicely, not much more to add here
 
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:passimian: This shouldn't come as a surprise really. It's generally the default Choice Scarf user for the tier and the removal of Goodra from the tier also generally removes any need it ever had for Tera Fairy Tera Blast on Choice sets. Knock Off on a Fighting-type in a tier where hazard removal is limited and forces a lot of fat mons to run Boots means it just creates a lot of clean up chances for itself. U-turn is always good on a Choice mon and being able to form a VoltTurn core with the likes of Vespiquen, Eelektross, Rotom, and Jolteon makes it even more challenging to play around. Rock Slide, Gunk Shot, and Earthquake all smack would-be counters for likely lethal damage. I don't feel it's too much for the tier, but it is awfully centralizing and may fall under the "overcentralizing" category of broken (as in, the meta "can" handle it, but generally has to overprepare somewht to account for it.}
:sm/Passimian:
I second this. Passimian is by far the best fighting type in the tier bostering both Uturn for momentum and Knock Off to let most fighting check in the dust or unable to switch after.
Doesn't is "broken" but it's so limiting on team building at the point that you need to have a trully good reason to not use it.
Seeing how he isn't in the radar doesn’t surprise me but i hope this is revised in the nearly future.

Tranks that alpha states are dead. Gl low tier players.
 

plznostep

Flittle Fanatic
is a Community Contributor
Heya NU, it's me again :D
Thought I would talk about the winners and losers about these recent bans in the tier, this is all first impressions by the way, I haven't had time to experiment with all of these yet :P


Winners:

:passimian: :tauros-paldea-combat: Scarf Passimian now has more options, Oricorio-PomPom and Venomoth leaving the tier makes it so that being locked into Close Combat isn't giving these dangerous Pokémon free turns. Goodra's ban also means less Tera Fairy Pokemon will be running around, meaning that Fighting STAB is looking even better. This is also true for Choiced sets of Tauros, although it wasn't as a big as a problem for it as it was for Passimian due to its much better speed tier which mean't it naturally outran +1 Oricorio's with a scarf.

:oricorio: :oricorio-sensu: :oricorio-pa :vivillon: :lilligant: A lot of these Quiver Dancer's were not as favored due to the fact that Oricorio-PomPom and Venomoth were very popular due to Oricorio-PomPom's superior defensive typing and the fact it could beat a lot of these Quiver Dancers on switch in (just had to be careful of sleep powder) and Venomoth's Tinted Lens rendering resists obsillete. Without them, these Quiver Dancers now have less competition for these roles. Furthermore, Lilligant and Vivillon benefit greatly from Goodra leaving the tier, as it cannot absorb their grass moves, such as Lilligant's Grass Stab or Vivillon's sleep powder.

:scovillain: :sawsbuck: :gogoat: :jumpluff: These Grass types all benefit greatly from Goodra leaving in the tier. Scovillain's STAB's are now not as easy to resist by just slapping Goodra on a team. Choice Sawsbuck sets are now more free to use their grass stab without letting Goodra come in for free. Gogoat now has more flexability in its sets, possibly now even being able to run mono grass attacking sets. Lastly, Jumpluff doesn't have to worry about Goodra absorbing its sleep powders and giving it free turns.

:Oricorio-Pa :Oricorio: :Drifblim: :braviary: Losing a valuable defogger in Oricorio-PomPom makes these options look much more appealing now, especially Oricorio-Baile who seems like they will be a great replacement to Oricorio-PomPom due to possessing a solid defensive typing for the tier, although it does not like losing its Heavy Duty Boots from Passimians Knock Off.

:muk: :vaporeon: :eelektross: Despite losing a fair bit of Quiver Dance users, there seems to be plenty of them ready to take the places they left in the tier. Goodra was a common way to beat these Quiver Dancer's by phasing them out. Without Goodra in the tier now, these phasers/hazers should see more use to deal with these dangerous Pokemon.

:Rotom-Fan: Finally, Rotom-Fan is not in the shadow of Oricorio-PomPom anymore! This is big for Rotom-Fan, as it now has that lovely defensive typing that Oricorio saw success with all to itself and its not forced to run choice anymore to have a niche over regular Oricorio sets, meaning that Nasty Plot sets are now way more viable.

Losers

:chansey: Chansey previously saw a lot of usage because it was one of the only safe switch in's to Specs Goodra and also dealt with the other two Quiver Dancers pretty well. Now with them gone, Chansey has lost some of its appeal, although its not all bad thanks to there being plenty of Quiver Dancers left to deal with, giving Chansey plenty of use still and im sure it will still be quite good.

:Frosmoth: Frosmoth enjoyed the fact that Oricorio could not switch into it due to its ice stab. With the most common Oricorio form gone, this frees up the previously rare Oricorio-Baile form, meaning that Frosmoth now loses this trait. But it's not all bad, less competition means that Frosmoth is at least more appealing as a Quiver Dancer now and probably still beats a lot of the majority of them anyways.

:Copperajah: :Perrserker: While they are still great, Copperajah and Perrserker were pretty appealling due to checking Goodra, and of course without Goodra, this means they have lost a tiny bit of utility. This is not a big loss at all, they will still be really good in this meta.

I think that's about it really, let me know if i've missed anyone out and have a good time experimenting post bans :3
 
:sv/sandaconda:

Oricorio-Pom-Pom was the main check to Sandaconda,being immune to both Glare and Earthquake.Sandaconda can freely spread paralysis on the entire tier bar Eelektross right now.Thus it's kinda hard to pass off the utility it provides on every team.

:sv/dudunsparce:

With Goodra being gone,CM Dudunsparce doesn't mandate Fairy tera anymore.Remaining (p)hazers don't like switch on multiple boombursts and they get 2HKOed by Specs if trying to scout.AV Goodra could easily switch on Specs set and threaten back,now you rely on Chansey/Umbreon and hope he doesn't get 10 Air Slash flinches in a row.
 
:vivillon-polar: :vivillon-ocean: :vivillon: :sv/vivillon-fancy: :vivillon-sun: :vivillon-archipelago: :vivillon-elegant:

Super excited to try out Vivillon more. It greatly benefits from all 3 of these bans. Goodra could come in on sleep powder freely and with it's amazing special bulk it took minimal damage from even boosted hurricanes. It could also phaze it out with dragon tail. Pom Pom of course could copy your QD if you attempt to setup, or just start setting up itself as it resists Vivi's stabs and most coverage it would want to run. Venomoth was more competition as a QD user who possessed sleep powder as well, along with slightly higher speed and access to the amazing Tinted Lens. This pokemon is going to be a lot better and quite annoying to deal with I think. It has Compound Eyes boosted sleep powders that it can spam more easily without goodra. Similar to Venomoth you sorta need two things to answer this as it could just put something to sleep freely. You also have to account for the risk of it immediately using quiver dance on the switch to a sleep absorber. Scary butterfly.
 
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